16 Responses to “Episode #60”

16 Comments

Hey guys, just been listening to the podcast.

First off, congrats to William for breaking his Stargate virginity! Now you can appreciate why we are making this mod!

Second, you are right about the flat shaded renders…be fair all our previous renders have been smoothed, but I think the news was done in a bit of a hurry this time. And yes, it has been all renders lately. I’ll see if I can sort that out in the future, I don’t think I’d realised how dull that could be.

Third, it’s more of the fan fic to us (though I’d never use that term, it makes me think of conventions and dressing up and all that stuff….I’m too damn British for that!), we never really thought about using the fanbase. If anything I myself think we’d get less people interested than if we did some random UT style DM mod, because there are people out there where this sci-fi element doesn’t appeal to them.

I quite enjoyed this transmission. And good discussion Phil :)

But william, I gotta ask what balls you’re tripping when you say orion maps run as nicely as they look. Their Visclusters are HUGE and don’t make any sense, and there are all kinds of optimization problems. Praz says these issues will be fixed by the public release, but there’s no way there were fixed when you guys played :D

I don’t know what to say… maybe they updated the maps or changed them around since Emanuel and Is playtest… But I remember saying “Wow, these maps look great and they run great too”. I didn’t drop below 50-60 fps on any of the maps I played. Emanuel was also surprised… and it’s very hard to surprise him.

Im glad I could finally wake up early enough to sit in on this live stream. It was enjoyable and the Coven post session was a lot of fun.

Keep up the great work with the podcast. :)

- live stream: not happening. Not with my schedule.
- valve & steam: being also a developers has them ‘eating the food they cook’. Using your own products is the best way to improve them. Agreed with you guys there.
- the rising: agreed with phillip, at one point you do want to ‘specialize’ the mod into something. Otherwise you get “Meatball Sundaes”. And no, I don’t think it’s the feature creep, he’s just aiming for a broader audience.
- key testicles? keys, testicles? This podcast just jumped 2 points up in my podcast chart :)
- if it’s not on moddb it’s on pee pee ?! Wow!! Keep it comming :)
- you kept it comming!! ZOMG!!!

Hey guys great podcast!

I couldn’t find the “audio response” option like there was way back when so I just uploaded my response to youtube :D (crosses fingers this works, as I can’t edit my post!)

Just in case, here is the URL:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8JOuAMRd50

Best Regards,

-MattD

Matt, thanks for the response.

The Audio reply was removed a while ago, but using YouTube is a good option.

In answer to your question “Why do you need to say you are staying within a genre?” I believe that it’s possible to have variety in games and mods, it’s important for the person playing to know what they are getting. I am not talking about the marketing etc, as you mentiend, but about giving them what they enjoy.

Imagine you heard of a game called “Game KT42″. What would be your first kind of question? Probably “what kind of game is it?”. Without knowing that you won’t know whether you should investigate it more.

If we took an extreme example and said a mods starts off as a arcade shooter, where the player is fix to a gun, then switches to a normal FPS and a little later switches to an RPG, with lots of questions and exploring, jumps to a driving game and finishes with a topdown strategy sections.

People enjoy certain aspects of gaming and to through everything at them won’t work. In little doses, it works well but without an overlying theme or genre players would be confused.

Think sports or music. If you go to a concert and it starts with rock, moves to C&W, add a little opera and finishes with reggae you annoy all and please few.

The same for sports. People like particular sports, not mixed sports, you can’t change a football game into rugby half way through.

I apologize for labouring the point.

I don’t have a problem with being as creative as possible but I honestly feel if games or mods don’t have a genre players will struggle with it.

If you mean that at the beginning you should be completely free with ideas and options, I totally agree, but at some point you have to say “ok, what kind of game am I making?”. Maybe you even invent a new style, but it will be a new genre, not a non-genre.

At the end of the day, when your mod is finished, the reviewers will condense it down into a few sentences and part of that will be a brief description of its genre.

If I looked at your screenshots (which of course I have) I would say you are making a shooter because all 4 shots have a weapon in them.

I respect what you are doing and really do wish you lots of success but I tend to become frustrated with mod makers when they make claims in their summaries and I tend to jump on them.

I apologize if I was rude or you felt I was being negative towards your mod, because that wasn’t my intention.

With regard to the sprinting, I would like to suggest that looking around while sprinting forwards be limited. In real life we can look sideways for a few moments but not for long and our speed drops. Perhaps you could incorporate that into the movement?

I look forward to having you on the show, once he mod has been released.

Great response Phillip!

“People enjoy certain aspects of gaming and to through everything at them won’t work. In little doses, it works well but without an overlying theme or genre players would be confused.

Think sports or music. If you go to a concert and it starts with rock, moves to C&W, add a little opera and finishes with reggae you annoy all and please few.

The same for sports. People like particular sports, not mixed sports, you can’t change a football game into rugby half way through.”

That’s right Philip and you do have a great point, however these issues only arise when you don’t decide from the beginning who your target audience is. If I know my target audience are racing fans, if I add game play features outside of that genre I need to make sure they don’t hijack the main racing elements as those are why the players are there. Trying to sell a racing game that, unknown to the player, has heavy RPG, FPS, or sports elements that end up hijacking the main racing experience would indeed frustrate them.

So sure, genre defining from a marketing/selling standpoint is very important. However, as long as you know who your target audience is, realize your teams’ skill traits and capacity, creating game play elements that revolve around the core themes of your game is a better route to go in my opinion.

“In real life we can look sideways for a few moments but not for long and our speed drops. Perhaps you could incorporate that into the movement?”

Oh you can look sideways in the mod, you just can’t strafe left or right while sprinting. Your movement is what we are restricting, not your vision. The thing is, if you do look to your sides, you just begin to sprint in that direction.

Perhaps this is a question of semantics but isn’t “your target audience” and “core themes” just another name for a genre?

He’s one question for you. How would you describe your game in one sentence?

“Perhaps this is a question of semantics but isn’t “your target audience” and “core themes” just another name for a genre?”

I don’t quite follow you Phillip. Please don’t take this the wrong way as I’m sure you are already well aware of these meanings, but “Core Themes” (referring to any underlying ideas form the source material) and “Target Audience” (who you intend to market/sell the product to) are totally different from a genre (basically a system for categorizing your work). Essentially what I am saying is one shouldn’t use a category as a base and then build up from there, but should instead build from whatever inspires them about the source material.

“He’s one question for you. How would you describe your game in one sentence?”

It depends on who I’m talking to. If it’s the media, family members, friends, fans, etc:

“The Rising is an action-oriented survival-horror modification for Half-Life 2.”

This is obviously the condensed genre-version as it’s easier for people to grasp. Think of this as how you often need to condense/genre-fy Half-life 2 when explaining it to outsiders — if you don’t use mainstream language/categorization you’ll just confuse the them.