23 Responses to “Episode #5”

23 Comments

Hi guys, great podcasts so far I am enjoying them a lot. As a lot of people have mentioned before myself, you guys have opened my eyes to some mods / maps / videos that I would have missed completely otherwise so I thank you for that!

I thought your discussion about “will we be playing HL2 in 6 years” was an interesting one, and it carries a certain resonance with me as I am still active in the Quake (1) community after what feels like an eternity :)

I think you guys hit the nail on the head with your thoughts, the longevity of any game at the end of the day comes down to the community surrounding it and what tools are available, in Quake’s case we have access to literally everything, including John Carmacks sometimes hilarious code commenting, so we have had the luxury of being able to completely change the game engine to suit our requirements where needed. I find it interesting that Valve has not done this for Goldsrc yet, but I can see why perhaps as they still tweak and patch various things on Steam for Goldsrc games occasionally. I suppose they are still including Half-Life in steam retail packages also which makes releasing the engine source questionable (perhaps?).

It would be very interesting to see what Goldsrc modders could do if they were given access to the engine code, I know for a fact that some of the most impressive mods & maps for Quake have shipped with their own executable and they have really pushed the limits of what is possible in the game, and by doing so inadvertently inspired others to create even greater works themselves. It would be great to hear some opinions from Goldsrc modders on what they would do with the engine source, what barriers could be broken through and what directions they would take their respective mods.

Now then, just quickly, I have a minor niggle with some of your podcasts, the volume differences between each participants voices is sometimes really huge, which makes listening late at night quite difficult :) I think I have a nice volume level whereby I can hear whats being said while not keeping the neighbours up, but while Phillips voice is usually very clear and at a good volume level, others seems to be very quiet or extremely loud by comparison.

@CubicVirtuoso: I think you guys did get the e-mail I meant :) Philip replied to it so it’s all good.
I really need to start using read confirmations though. *writes note to self*

@Editor321: Nuh man, its all good, I just had to mention that I brought Halo 3 (and my Xbox 360 for the matter) to “finish the fight”, that is, for the story and It was most defiantly worth however much I paid for the Halo 3 Legendary edition ($200 au).

I enjoyed the show, enjoyed what you had to say and look forward to hearing ya on a future episode!

@CubicVirtuoso: Please don’t apologize for saying that Night Terror was for Half-Life 2 Episode 1, I think there was a bit of a misunderstanding when Phillip read a comment where I said that Night Terror used the Ep1 engine, which isn’t necessarily Half-Life 2 Episode 1. But I’m not to fussed about it, I’m weighing up the pros and cons for porting this map over to Half-Life 2 Ep1, not that its a big job at all, just be nice to take advantage of the new entities and such but I want to target the largest possible audience for this map and don’t want to cloud out people that don’t own Ep1.

Thanks Guys for helping me out.

I bought the original game for 98 cents on Wednesday and the game is Awesome! But in my opinion is not as good as HL2. But this game is better than 98 percent of all shooters even today. This will also be a new favorite for me.

Sorry for the late responses again. I like doing these things in bulk anyway:

@Scott: I think you have explained your point rather clearly. You certainly have a valid opinion, I just don’t think companies should abandon singleplayer because they have a “foothold” I believe its unethical and doesn’t do justice for a subset of gamers. I’m not saying Valve is doing that, but I believe there are some dev groups out there who just don’t care about singleplayer anymore. I think L4D will bring our community into a new genre of gaming, more and more games will concentrate on the “coop” experience; which is extremely needed. Also this whole notion of “a million different gameplay types; ala Call of Duty” will be abolished with simpliar “you get what you get” gameplays like L4D.

@mel: Even though your post was directed towards Phillip I like to comment and try to defend him to the best of my abilities. I always love reading your posts because they are thoughtful and intelligent. Phillip has outlined other reasons throughout various podcasts as to why he doesn’t like Heart of Evil, unfortunately he wasn’t able to define other reasons, other than: “I don’t like zombies”, as to why he disliked “They Hunger”. But I still think this is a valid reason. He really doesn’t like zombies and that’s fine, it’s like some people who don’t like say… Mechs; so they dislike all mech games; or teletubbies… or kittens. Sometimes I wonder why Phillip dislikes some of the mods he dislikes and likes some of the ones he likes; this is why Phillip is so mysterious to me :P I personally enjoy it and I love picking his brain, he is certainly a “singleplayer” thru and thru which is why I think he is great on the show.

@aaron: I think there might of been some confusion or lack of clarity. In my opinion people originally got excited for Halo3 because of the singleplayer, but lets face it… that lasts for a mere 2 days (at most).. it’s the multiplayer that draws the players attention and its the multiplayer that keeps halo famous. No one ever says Half-Lifes multiplayer is incredible they always say it has an intriguing story line that keeps them asking for more and sparking creativity. Of course it is the mods that are associated with Half-Life that have the keen multiplayer, but even then… they aren’t as big as the current Halo franchise… maybe because Half-Life is like fine wine and Halo is like a cheap beer. I know us at podcast17 can’t wait for the next release of Night Terror and I apologize for saying it was for EP1; I think I still might hold out for the final though. I think it’s great that you released a demo and from the looks of it, it wasn’t the first few levels of the final game; and this is the real way to release a demo and I encourage more of this… a perfect example of demo release is the Half-Life Uplink demo… it really has nothing to do with the game, doesn’t spoil the storyline, but it shows the engine, features, and mapping style. I for one am still on the fence on whether I like multiplayer or singleplayer better. I think at heart I still enjoy singleplayer better than multiplayer, but multiplayer (with a good group of online friends) is slowly catching up. I personally love sitting in my basement alone playing a good singleplayer mod and drinking frangelico… maybe that’s because I’m an only child… and maybe an alcoholic? lawlz

@firba1: ” I don’t think that L4D will be fun for it’s gameplay, but rather the “Counter-Strike” aspect: goofing around with people on the internet.” I will have to disagree with you on this one. The only time i goof around with people in L4D is when we have cheats on, otherwise it’s strickly buisness and stategy. Maybe I am just playing with a specific group of people, I think once L4D has evolved a bit more there will be more of that goofing around.

@ducksauce: we didn’t get your email, but I’m assuming it was about Fragout. We will be talking about it this week.

@azelito: I agree with you that this year has been a lot about multiplayer, but those games you talk about; DeadSpace, Mirrors Edge, Fallout3 will be lost in the sea of multiplayer games that will reign popularity. DeadSpace has already lost its flavour and you rarely see it in the media anymore, Mirrors edge only just came out and same with Fallout3 so we will be hearing about that for a bit longer, but they will soon fade as well. I just wish there was a way to increase the lifecycle of singleplayer games.

@Everyone else: Thanks for all the kind words your support and comments is what drives me to do these types of podcasts! For the community by the community.

I think the reason you guys were dissapointed by Left 4 Dead because everyone’s expectations were so high that it became impossible for valve to forfill what everyone wanted. I think a lot of people (at least I will) will enjoy this game for years, I played the two levels for the demo over and over and still wasn’t bored by it! I agree on the ‘everyone loves Valve game’ statement though, some people just like it because it’s a game by Valve and that’s wrong, you have to like a game for the game itsself, not for the company who made it.
I enjoyed your podcast btw :) as always ;)

Hey there,

In response for the two people who bought Halo 3 for the story, good on you for enjoying because most people can’t myself included. Working at a game store I am exposed to the gaming demograph and I actually did a mini poll one day and asked my customers if they had bought Halo 3 and why. They provided me with the answer of the multiplayer. Just as a heads up that I didn’t pull that out of my backside.

At the end of the day, we all have our opinions and some of us are louder than others and in different numbers. I hope you guys enjoyed the rest of the podcast and enjoyed something I had to say. :-)

Cheers and I hope to return at a later date,

Tom

Great show guys, as always.

On the subject of games today focusing more on multi-player I have to disagree. Several of the biggest triple-A-titles released this autumn has their sole focus on single-player (Dead Space, Mirror’s Edge, Fallout 3 to name a few).
I get the feeling that now is the time for single-player games more than ever before (post-internet-era of course), with multi-player often meaning you can play “single-player” campaigns in co-op mode.
The games of this autumn, with their well written scripts and enormous attention to detail (read Dead Space), take so much work to complete. Correct me if I’m wrong, but there used to be two or three ambitious games like this a year. The fact that we’re seeing so many of them show us what a huge market games are nowadays.
That is most likely, as you addressed in an earlier transmission, the reason why the mod community seems to have cooled down. I get the feeling it hasn’t though, but rather that it has spread over a wider spectra of games.

So yeah, great podcast…

Hey guys,
another good show:)

about left 4 dead to Philip: I didn’t like zombie games either, but Left4Dead ROCKED MY SOCKS :O, it’s really not fun to play with bots or people you don’t know though, you must REALLY play with friends to get the most out of it, because the bots are more like a replacement for real life players when they aren’t around. Although I assume your strong taste for singleplayer games is what makes it less fun for you.. but like I said it.. it must be play with friends to get the most fun out of Left4Dead

also I send you guys a mail again, forgot to add a read confirm so just wondering if you read it(wasn’t really expecting a reply, but without a reply and without read confirm I won’t know if you read it :( )

Excellent show. I really enjoyed it.
I found it kinda short… that’s weird because the podcast is long as the others do (more or less). Maybe was the excitement :P

Cheers to you all and thanks for mention our mod Tom :)

PS: Phillip didn’t play Counter Strike… and he no likes zombies… What’s the next new?

Love this podcast, can’t wait for next week!

But on to my comments. First, I must admit, I bought Halo 3 for the story. Same goes for Halo 2. I’ve always enjoyed the Halo multiplayer, but I was never interested enough to play either Halo 2 or 3 online consistently. Although this is somewhat tangenial, I think it’s important to remember that there are still some people who buy games like the Halo series for the story and not the multiplayer.

On a completely different note, I liked the Left 4 Dead demo. I must admit, it’s probably not because the game was particularly awesome in and of itself, but partially it was so fun playing with several random people on the internet. I remember when I played with one of my friends and 2 people from matchmaking and our team died at least 6 times on the second map, which was quite amusing. I don’t think that L4D will be fun for it’s gameplay, but rather the “Counter-Strike” aspect: goofing around with people on the internet.

Also, thank you very much for reminding me about Lit Fuse. I think I first came across them 3 years ago and then promptly forgot about them. But it looks like they’ve done even more machinima (yes, it’s like “cinema”) already.

Keep up the good work!

Yet another great Podcast!

I just want to start off with something that was bothering me a fair bit, in response to Thomas’s comment “Nobody bought Halo 3 for the Story”, I heavily disagree. I assure you that the millions of Halo fans like myself agree that the story is an ESSENTIAL element to Halo. Ofcourse, Halo is probably a multiplayer game at heart many will agree, but the Singleplayer aspect (The story being a major part of that) is extremely important to the game.

Also just wanted to mention that Half-Life 2 Episode 1 is not required to play Night Terror, and thanks for the positive comments on it :). Rest assured, there is still alot more goodies that are being implemented into Night Terror that I decided I didn’t want to include/spoil in the Pre-Alpha version plus more spaces that are yet to be designed and fleshed out. AND, the existing game play is extremely rough and bound to improvement. And cheers for mentioning it :).

As for releasing Beta versions, I understand that they may spoil some aspects on the mod, but the purpose of them is too gather community opinion to improve the whole experience and that no responsible designer would release a large portion of their experience in beta or alpha form, unless their focus isn’t so much on making a map for the community but more making it for themselves to learn or add to their portfolio.

As for games being more multiplayer focused these days, I’m not sure if I agree or disagree but I will say that everybody (Except Phillip) like to play multiplayer, they like to have fun with their buddies and get that adrenaline rush, they like to be competitive and talk trash and swear, they like to throw their controller or mouse at the wall when they lose and scream “Yes” when they win, its something that can only happen in multiplayer games. However, on the other side of the fence, you can do things in singleplayer that can’t be done in multiplayer such as immerse the player in a world and make them a big or small part of a compelling story. I think that there will always be great single and multiplayer games for as long as people are gaming for.

Enjoyed the show guys, although it’s only been 4 weeks or so the show appears to be improving each week, sound quality much improved, format and structure settling down with content getting better balanced, a very polished broadcast.

I would like to take Phillip to task on a few points, I think sometimes Phillip you miss out on a lot, and while I generally agree with your views about Zombies they do have a place in the HL world which would be poorer without them. I got a bit bored hearing you saying ‘bored’ to a lot of stuff on the show, yes I get bored with the zombie thing and don’t like zombie only based mods/games, but to write-off mods such as They Hunger and then Heart of Evil as boring is not giving them their just reward. I guess you did not play the They Hunger Trilogy and gave up with part 1, if that is the case then you missed by far the very best of the mod which improved immensely with Parts 2 and 3. For me no way was Heart of Evil boring, it was way too involved to be boring, maybe I had the advantage of playing the mod when it was first released. Heart of Evil was originally released in 4 or 5 parts with Hanger 16 supporting and reviewing each part when released, playing this way was far from being boring I can assure you.

Just to finish up this friendly interchange with Phillip, by the way we have disagreed on many things for many years but have managed to keep friendly. I would like to go back to the comment I made about you missing out on things, this I feel also applies to your views on what you refer too as ‘Total Conversion’ a topic which is worthy of a spot on a future broadcast. I cannot help feel that again you miss-out on a lot with your somewhat dismissive approach to mods such as ‘Get a Life’. While I will agree that the first two levels don’t follow the HL format, this does not mean the rest of the mod is without HL content, most of this mod is very similar in feel and format to any typical HL game and even though there is plenty of new stuff you still get that Half Life buzz when playing this mod.

I do feel at times you owe it to both your readers and now listeners to be more knowledgeable about some of the mods you dismiss as either boring or not in the HL universe. I hope you take the above in the friendly manner it was intended.

Hey guys :)

I was listening at the start about single player and multi player games, and I think that companies such as Valve will spend the start of their company “life-time” by creating Single Player games, because If a company or a group of people make a single player mod, they put a lot more work into it and when they complete the mod/game the community will begin to praise them more and more… Evidentially creating their sort of “popularity” of the group and because of that status they go onto make easier games like multi player games…

I don’t know if i am just blabbering now, but I’m trying to explain my point in the best I can.

Also, by looking at Left 4 Dead and realizing that is pretty much an online co-op with A.I bots, If someone was to come up to you guys and ask “Because companies like valve are making co-op games, and it seems that the game design buisnesses are settling on multi player do you think that people who are making mods that are Single player should just stop and work on a multi player instead?”

Thanks guys on the podcast, and cheers for mentioning Outbreak: Episode One! :D
Sythen(Scott).

WOOT! LEFT 4 DEAD IS RELEASED! PLAYING IT NOW.

P.S buy it phillip, you dont know what your missing out on!

@Jdshald: Get the original Half-Life… while your at it play Blue-Shift and Opposing Force as well! Don’t waste your time with the Half-Life: Source remake; to be honest I never played it 100% through. Stick with the originals and become enthralled by its story and structure; no other game will immerse you quite like Half-Life does.

As a side note; I agree with you on the topic of L4D. Unfortunately Phillip and Thomas did not agree with me, but that what makes our show so great; the conflicting opinions. However, without a good set of friends I feel L4D isn’t worth it. Thanks for the good words and keep listening!

Jdshald: You should just get the original Half-Life. You can get HL: Generations which comes with the two single-player expansions (Opposing Force and Blue Shift), plus Counter-Strike. From what I heard, HL: Source basically just added new visual effects from HL2 plus ragdolls so nothing really worth bragging about and they seem quite out of place. Owning the original HL also means you have access to the many, many quality mods available. Black Mesa will probably not be released for a long time and it is a fan interpretation. I’m sure it will be good but you should play the original first. I 100% recommend the original HL.

I will comment on the podcast when I get round to listening to it. :D

Hello Podcast 17,

I just want to say that I am a huge fan of the show because I weekly get to hear news and opinions about my Favorite Game Series of All time: Half Life plus Mods and other Valve Games. I originally bought Counter Strike Source because my friends had it and around November of Last year I heard about the Orange Box and all the positive reviews it got so I decided to check it out. The Games in the Orange Box blew my mind and I became a Life Long fan of Half Life and Valve. Despite my love for the Half Life series I have never played Half Life 1 and I was wondering if you could give me advice on what to do?

Should I buy the original Half Life or get the graphically updated Half Life: Source or should I wait for at least a year or more for Black Mesa Source (Mod).

I also just wanted to say that I played Left 4 Dead and it is so much more than a “glorified mod” as you pointed out in the demo and there is so much depth and fun I had one of the best multiplayer experiences when playing the game with my friend.

Thanks,

Jeromy